Ep.1 | Why Photographers Suck

Ready to get down and dirty in the world of photography? In this episode Sal and Alissa discuss why photographers suck. You know, things like personal skills, chasing business vs chasing social media likes from people who don't matter, or not understanding their own businesses and what they are selling. And that's just the beginning. 

Transcript

Sal Cincotta 0:00

All right, everyone. Welcome to the first episode of Talking Shit with the Cincottas. This has been a long time coming.

Alissa Cincotta 0:08

I think it's been like two years in the making when we first came up with our first iteration of the logo.

Sal Cincotta 0:14

Well, we did it for the Creator Series and we had that. We had a podcast. It was kind of like an after show. Yeah, it was an after show. Everybody wanted a podcast after that and I... No,

Alissa Cincotta 0:25

he's been a podcast hater for a long time.

Sal Cincotta 0:27

That is a true statement. I have been a hater. There's no doubt about it. I'm still not sure I'm on board. It's really going to come down to what everyone thinks or feels because I guess I never lose sight that I'm just a photographer at the end of the day. So I tend not to take myself too seriously. But with that being said, we have to start with a talking shit topic. So today's topic, the first topic ever is going to be Why photographers suck. I think that's a great first topic for this podcast and very apropos for us. I don't even

Alissa Cincotta 1:02

know what that word means. Apropos. You speak in French to me?

Sal Cincotta 1:06

Yeah, I'm speaking French. All right, so. But what does that mean? It's appropriate. Oh,

Alissa Cincotta 1:13

okay, okay. Is that like a Gen Z abbreviation?

Sal Cincotta 1:16

No, trust me, I'm not one of those guys who's trying to talk like the kids. Okay, got it. No, the kids say it. Um, so this podcast, everybody, it's our first one. And I think what we're going to end up doing is just meant to be motivational talking about things going on in the world of business for photography. Um, and really I want to stay focused on photography and photography like topics. I think that'll, that's the most exciting. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we could start a podcast on cooking. I mean, we could do that. I'm

Alissa Cincotta 1:44

all, I'm all for that. As long as I get to be the taste tester.

Sal Cincotta 1:47

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. All right, so let's get started, right? I love the topic, why do photographers suck? It can mean so many different things, but for me, I think there's a couple of ways to get started, and it is just really thinking about, as a photographer today, as a business owner, I see my peers, right? We're in education, so we see a lot of photographers that we try to help, try to help them grow their businesses, but there's just still these things that they can't seem to move past. Do you see that?

Alissa Cincotta 2:15

Yeah, I mean, I would say as a whole, most photographers can't get out of their own way. It's overcomplicating everything, thinking... that this small business of running a photography studio is so much and it doesn't have to be.

Sal Cincotta 2:31

No, they definitely overcomplicate everything. And, um, and we'll probably talk about this on future episodes for sure. But I think the biggest part is, um, you know, if you want to start with like social media, I think it's a great place to start. Photographers tend to chase likes chase popularity versus chasing, um, Or chasing trends versus chasing business.

Alissa Cincotta 2:54

Well, I know there are some photographers who would argue that chasing those trends is what leads to business. They believe if they go viral on social media, that that's going to get them business. And I don't know that I... I mean, we don't follow the trends. We don't really post on social media much at all, except for just like, here's a cool picture.

Sal Cincotta 3:11

Yeah.

Alissa Cincotta 3:12

But... So we can't speak to that from experience. Maybe.

Sal Cincotta 3:16

I'm not buying into it. No. I don't believe for a second that if I do some stupid fucking TikTok dance online that suddenly my clients are going to be like, he's so cool. We're going to hire him for family portraits. It would be the opposite. Yeah. Look at this fucking idiot. Please

Alissa Cincotta 3:34

God, make it stop.

Sal Cincotta 3:35

Yeah. No, I think... I don't believe for a minute that that's going to drive business to us. And I think part of that is also not understanding what we're really selling. You know, like when we started in education, we never cared about being popular. That wasn't, I mean, social media didn't even exist. And I hate that I'm dating myself on how long I've been doing this, but we are now in our 18th year of business. So 18 years ago, if there was a YouTube, it was just starting. Instagram definitely wasn't there. Facebook wasn't there yet. So now everybody's just chasing, and it's always that like, That voice I hear, it's like, what if I told you in three easy steps how to pose your best for wedding... It's

Alissa Cincotta 4:24

instant skip to the next video

Sal Cincotta 4:25

if something starts that way. Yeah, I can't take it. I

Alissa Cincotta 4:27

can't

Sal Cincotta 4:27

take it. No. But I just don't think that's what leads to business. I think if you're doing what you're doing, and this is any educator that's out there, if you're an educator, not only a normal photographer, but if you've gotten into education, what's the ultimate goal? What are you looking to do? Are you looking to... truly educate your tribe, right? Which we've made a career out of that. I have nothing against that. But how are you going to go about it? I don't wanna ruin my reputation by just chasing, by making posts that intentionally will get traction. I mean, there's a way to get traction on your post. You post something controversial today, that is going to get traction, right? So if you just want traction and engagement and likes, that'll do it. But at the same time, you're going to piss off half your customers.

Alissa Cincotta 5:19

Yeah. Yeah. I want to go back. You were talking about like you started this 18 years ago. Obviously I wasn't in the picture 18 years ago, but when I first came on, I was, I think Instagram had just kind of started and we, you had your fur, one of your first high school senior workshops. And I was, it was the first one I was on at least. And I remember I took a picture of you shooting with the attendees cause you would do, um, one day of hands-on and then a seminar that night. And I took this, I didn't know what behind the scenes was at the time, but I took this picture and it was you with all the attendees and the model lined up. And we, I remember we looked at it that night and we were like, how cool would it be if we like start to show people what it's like in pictures on Instagram? What if we used Instagram to show people what the experience at a salsa and cata workshop would be like? So, I mean, I've been at the company 15 years now, so...

Sal Cincotta 6:12

It's

Alissa Cincotta 6:12

just, it's come a long way. And now you've got an entire photo industry, not like on the professional side, but like weddings and these events where photographers or content creators are being hired to come in and show just behind the scenes of the day. So you'll hire a professional photographer for your images, for your album, stuff like that. But then you're also hiring somebody to come in and just show what your day looked like on the scenes. Yeah.

Sal Cincotta 6:36

Yeah.

Alissa Cincotta 6:36

It's wild to me.

Sal Cincotta 6:37

I know it is wild because they're not, I know I'm gonna say this and it's gonna sound horrible, but they're not real photographers. And I don't mean it in the way that initially everybody's gonna take it. They are content creators, which is, I think, just a different discipline. I'm not saying they're not good at what they do or there's no value in what they do. It's just different, right? And photography as a genre has just changed so much from the days of film to digital to, I mean, and now it's still digital, but there's people out there creating incredible content just with iPhones.

Alissa Cincotta 7:12

Yeah, absolutely. That's some of my favorite images I've ever taken are

Sal Cincotta 7:15

from iPhones. Yeah, yeah. You always say you use the camera you have. but now there's people who explicitly create content that way and no shade thrown to them. It's just, you have to, which leads me to what I'm saying, we have to understand what we're selling. I don't believe I'm selling a picture or an image to our clients because if we were, everyone's a photographer nowadays, right? So if I'm just selling a picture, a snapshot, a moment in time, I'd make the argument anybody can do that, right? Whether it's a good image, a great image, or somewhere in between, that's subject for debate. Ultimately, anybody can do that. So what are we selling, right?

Alissa Cincotta 7:57

Yeah, the what are you selling, but also you have to keep in mind who you're selling to because today's bride is completely different than 15 years ago. And I think what you specialized in 15 years ago, 10 years ago, even this big, dramatic, signature edit style, signature shot, You said before where content creators are not the same as a photographer.

Sal Cincotta 8:22

Right.

Alissa Cincotta 8:22

I would say that today's photographer that's going after the Gen Z bride is more of a content creation style for their photography and less about these huge, iconic, dramatic shots that you've built a career on.

Sal Cincotta 8:38

Yeah. Well, I don't know that that goes away. I don't know if that's what you're saying.

Alissa Cincotta 8:41

No, I don't think it goes away. I think there's just more... more people that are looking for wedding coverage specifically that feels like instagram posts

Sal Cincotta 8:50

yeah

Alissa Cincotta 8:51

and less about heirloom stuff that you're

Sal Cincotta 8:53

going to have forever yeah flip that into high school seniors right i mean they want that they want that behind the scenes you know there's any shoot that we're on i've got a mom senior specifically i've got a mom behind me filming me filming right right because that to them the experience is more meaningful you know, in a sense than the final image. Now, if you don't have that final image and you're not doing your job as a photographer, there's nothing for her to film behind the scenes. So what we do matters, but from a, she wants that behind the scene moment to document it and memorialize it, if you will. And just think about our own lives, right? Like our wedding day, there were so many great pictures that were taken, but our best memories are or of the moments that were captured behind the scenes, the things that were going on, right? So for example, something you constantly talk about is how the photographer and video team spent more time documenting me getting ready than you getting ready. Now, you know, kudos to Ray Roman and Michael Anthony for, you know, really

Alissa Cincotta 9:59

giving the groom some love. We need to talk about this. We had two hours dedicated to... getting ready photos. And I'm, I'm pretty sure about one hour and 43 minutes were on Sal Sincotta and, And the last, I think it was like the last 10 or 15 minutes I had to do, I had to get my dress. I had to do a reveal with my dad. And then the, the car was there.

Sal Cincotta 10:21

I mean, it seems like more than enough time. It seems very reasonable.

Alissa Cincotta 10:26

It was Sal's day.

Sal Cincotta 10:27

Yeah. It was an experience for me. I had a great time. Or I was just, you know, you were just a beautiful bride and it was so easy for them to get beautiful images of you versus me. I needed a little more handholding. That's really what it comes down to. Why are we talking about that? I don't know.

Alissa Cincotta 10:42

Experience or something.

Sal Cincotta 10:43

Yeah. I don't know. It's all about the experience. So the behind the scenes, yes. Yes. Okay. That story, that memory is not captured in any picture per se, but it's... It's

Alissa Cincotta 10:52

captured in the first 4,000 images of the day are just you.

Sal Cincotta 10:58

Oh my gosh. And that just makes me laugh because my mom... So you guys have... First dances, right? We all have first dances. Not you guys, but you've all covered first dances. And, you know, you look to the couple and it's one of the most joyous moments. But then the next place you're looking for imagery are the parents of the couple getting married, right? Because they're looking at their loved ones and they're so happy out on the dance floor.

Alissa Cincotta 11:23

It's such a beautiful moment.

Sal Cincotta 11:25

Every single picture of my mother is the same. This is it. I'm going to demonstrate it for you.

Alissa Cincotta 11:33

More death stare. No, you look too happy. Hang on. He's failing. It's this.

Sal Cincotta 11:39

Yeah, that's it right there. We should throw that picture up here. Yeah, it needs to be shown because people are going to think we're exaggerating.

Alissa Cincotta 11:45

No.

Sal Cincotta 11:46

Anyway, so.

Alissa Cincotta 11:47

The reveal of that moment was sent via text message. We have a family chat. We took those images and we just zoomed in on Mama C's face and just started peppering the channel.

Sal Cincotta 11:57

She was like, you're stealing my baby boy. He's my baby boy. He'll always be my baby boy. Anyway, you know, but those memories, that experience, good, bad, or different. to this day, my mother's like, no, I was very, I was very happy. She's like, why didn't someone tell me?

Alissa Cincotta 12:14

Oh my gosh.

Sal Cincotta 12:15

No.

Alissa Cincotta 12:16

When she found out

Sal Cincotta 12:17

what resting bitch face is. You look like a bitch right now.

Alissa Cincotta 12:21

And I love it now. Cause she's like, I have what some people might call resting bitch

Sal Cincotta 12:26

face. Yes. And that's how she says it too. Yes. What some people might call. Thank you. Mama C. Um, all right. Well, so yes, it's, I think photographers forget what they're actually selling and how important that is. And obviously there's experiences that happen among guests and things like that, but you as the photographer, as the artist, I think you are the part of that experience as well. Like you're the one responsible for making people laugh

Alissa Cincotta 12:55

and

Sal Cincotta 12:56

giving them, leaving them with a good taste in their mouth about how you're interacting with them, their family and friends. And I've just seen so many photographers firsthand witness. They're just shitty experiences that they give clients. I don't know how, what other word to use there.

Alissa Cincotta 13:14

Yeah. I think this is going to all lead into the fact that Photographers suck for the most part because of a lack of personality. And I think so many photographers are introverted, terrified of talking face to face with people and they hide in their little shell. They're creative. Yeah, but you can't. There is a time where you can be that person on a wedding day. because you would typically have two people with you. So if you're that person, make sure your second shooter or your primary shooter is the big personality, can carry the flow of the event because that's our dynamic. I definitely could never run a senior shoot by myself. I don't have that personality type. I don't think I'm that big of a weirdo, but I'm not somebody that can have the high energy you do.

Sal Cincotta 13:57

Yeah, I think it's not only about being a weirdo, right? I think it's also about having that high energy output. You know, the average person who gets in front of your camera, again, average person, is awkward in front of the camera, right? And they're

Alissa Cincotta 14:12

terrified

Sal Cincotta 14:13

of having their picture taken. They're not models. Take models off the table. Just the average person. If I put you in front of a camera, me in front of a camera, I'm going to be awkward because I don't, well, yeah, but I don't even know what I'm supposed to be doing. Like, I don't know what I look like on your camera. I don't know how you, how you have it set up right now. Take my mom, your mom, take a, you know, high school senior who's maybe a little bit awkward themselves. And the photographer is just in their own head. They're chimping the back of their camera like that. That to me drives me nuts when photographers will take a picture and they just stare at the back of their camera, take another picture, stare at the back of their camera. I know what you're doing. You're trying to get dialed in, you're trying to assess the situation. But internally, you're panicking a little bit. But to the client, you're not giving them a very good experience. You're just somebody hiding behind a camera. The way we have tried to build our business has been to make the camera almost an accessory to having a good time with somebody, right? Like, hey, I'm gonna have you stand over there. Do me a favor, cross your legs. My camera's not even up, right? When I'm doing that, my camera's down. Hey, do me a favor, stand over there, cross your legs this way. Let me see you looking off this way. Nope, looking at me here. Yep, I like that. Let me see you looking away again. I do like that. Let me see you looking over here. No, I don't like that way. So we're gonna do it with just me here and looking away. Those are the conversations I'm having with clients before the camera even comes up. Oh,

Alissa Cincotta 15:35

you're fully communicating with them. And then the key thing I think that you do the best as a photographer is you do all that and then you say, test shot. Yeah. And then that gives you that kind of allowance, I guess, to chimp a little bit. Yeah. And then be like, there's absolutely nothing wrong as a photographer about having to tell your client, hang on one second, the lighting's not right. Just chill out for one second.

Sal Cincotta 15:59

Yeah, I think that communication is crucial.

Alissa Cincotta 16:01

Because if you don't say that and you just panic and then you're in your camera and not talking to them, I promise you, because I've had it happen firsthand, your client is going to think that they look ugly, they look stupid, and that they are the problem on camera.

Sal Cincotta 16:16

Yeah, for those of you who don't know what she's talking about, it's I will get them set up and then I'm going to go, hey, test shot. I actually announce it vocally. click, and then I'm looking at the back of my camera. And I might talk out loud, I might have my assistant move a light or something like that. But now the client is part of that experience, even on the test side of things. So they understand what's happening versus thinking like, well, what's going on? Is that it? Should I move? Can I move? So I'm just like, hey, do your thing. I think I think that awkwardness with photographers, I think it's a problem. I think you have to understand that today's client, they're very camera aware, whether it's from social media or whatever. And if you're not, I'm not saying you have to have my personality type, because we have completely different personality types and you're an incredible photographer and you get the same results from clients. So you don't have to be this like big personality, but you do have to communicate And then there's just things you have to do that are just like common fucking sense. Like the way you dress, the way you carry yourself, showering, brushing your teeth. I hate saying this because people are going to be like, oh, he hates photographers. Dude, we went through this when I was in corporate America. I worked at Microsoft and there was people in Redmond, Seattle that were programmers and these were the I mean they were nerds man and these were brilliant people but you did not want to let them out in public right because they they're not cutting their fingernails they're not showering every day they got greasy hair I know this sounds like I'm making things up but I promise you I'm not and when I was at Microsoft before they would allow these people to into the field right so meaning when i worked at corporate you know some of my accounts were like fedex um pepsi was an account international paper i would go meet with those c-level people ceos cfos things like that before somebody could come to corporate to meet with them because let's just say they were a big account they wanted to talk directly to the programming team they had they were given a document on how to like go out into the real world Brush your hair. How to be a human. Shower, right? Use deodorant. I mean, I swear to you, this existed. And I think photographers fall into a little bit of that category. They're nerdy that way. And there's just no social or personal skills.

Alissa Cincotta 18:49

No, and I can speak to it in our own business. What are

Sal Cincotta 18:54

you talking about? I shower. Everybody's going to think I don't shower now.

Alissa Cincotta 19:03

Probably 2021. So like right around, I think it was 2021, right around the time the world came back online after COVID and we were so busy, but we had just laid off all of our staff. So we didn't have the same amount. We had more work coming in and not enough people to help us. I was so backed up with our client orders and I was so backed up with everything and we had previews coming in constantly. And for a solid two weeks, I don't think I got dressed up. I think I was doing my sales session sessions, wearing like jeans and a hoodie, no makeup, hair and a ponytail.

Sal Cincotta 19:37

It was easy to be lazy.

Alissa Cincotta 19:38

It was so easy to be lazy. And I, we watched our sales plummet for that two week window. And you had to be like, what is going on? And it took a minute for me to be like, Oh my God, I'm letting myself slip. I look, I look like I don't care. Right. So why would somebody come in and want to spend money with, with me if I can't even show them that I care enough to respect myself, to look decent for them?

Sal Cincotta 20:00

Yeah. I think that's an important point in understanding that you have to look and dress the part as well to win business. Right. That

Alissa Cincotta 20:06

doesn't mean I want to clarify this. That does not mean you need to go out and deck yourself out and designer clothes. It just means caring, especially for women. Like women care. The bare minimum, put some dry shampoo in your hair and brush through it. There's nothing more off-putting than showing up with greasy hair somewhere. You just told everybody around you that you don't care.

Sal Cincotta 20:26

Unfortunately, that's some kind of current trend. It's a trend. I don't know. I don't know if it's a Gen Z trend or what. There's a

Alissa Cincotta 20:33

fine line between gel and having a slick back hair

Sal Cincotta 20:36

and just greasy hair. You just look dirty. Yes. You look dirty.

Alissa Cincotta 20:39

Some people don't know how to do it right. There is a proper way to slick your hair back and it looks very classy.

Sal Cincotta 20:45

The takeaway here is take a fucking shower. Take a shower. Yeah, just take a shower. For women, put on some makeup. Clean yourself up. Pull it together.

Alissa Cincotta 20:51

There's nothing wrong

Sal Cincotta 20:52

with respecting yourself. But again, it goes back, loop it back to business. I know we're being a little funny and poking at this stuff, but loop it back to real business. If I'm going to go in and try and win a high value wedding, a high dollar wedding, right? Everybody's high dollar is different, but Whatever a high dollar wedding is. I want to go in. I want to win headshots at a law firm. I want to, you know, I want to do some corporate work, maybe video production. And I'm just showing up like this disheveled slob who looks like, you know, I got fucking Dorito stains on my shirt. Like, yeah. Who doesn't? Cool Ranch or regular?

Alissa Cincotta 21:27

It's not regular. It's nacho cheese.

Sal Cincotta 21:30

Nacho cheese, which is regular. I don't know. It depends on the day. Because

Alissa Cincotta 21:33

sometimes I'm like, I could really go for some Cool Ranch.

Sal Cincotta 21:35

No, no. But it's usually always. Stick with original. Yeah. Anyway, back to the point. You can't look like you're wiping this shit plain. It's like pizza in New York. You order a plain slice. That's a cheese. Not cheese. It is. It's a plain slice. Nothing on it. No fucking pineapples. I mean, there's something on it. There's cheese. Yeah. Okay. Anyway.

Alissa Cincotta 21:55

Okay.

Sal Cincotta 21:56

So now you're trying to win these high dial jobs and you're showing up looking like a homeless person. Like it's just not going to happen. And then they can't understand why they're not successful. So this concept of like just dress for success, dress for the person you want to be, dress for the person you're trying to win their business, dress the way your customers do. Yeah. A little bit. And ultimately just care,

Alissa Cincotta 22:15

right?

Unknown 22:16

Yeah.

Alissa Cincotta 22:17

This is the hardest thing. We're talking about photographer's personality. Photographers will come to workshops. They'll spend all this money on gear and they perfect their skill. They're like the best photographers ever. They got a good personality with you one-on-one. But how do you coach someone? to not be a freaking weirdo.

Sal Cincotta 22:38

That's a really tough thing. You can't coach them. And how do you even

Alissa Cincotta 22:41

tell

Sal Cincotta 22:41

somebody? Many of them just might not even think they're a weirdo. That's what I'm

Alissa Cincotta 22:44

saying. So when somebody comes to you and they're like, Sal, I'm doing everything you told me to do. My work is amazing, but I just can't get anyone to book me. How do you have that honest conversation with somebody to say, it's you, you're the problem?

Sal Cincotta 22:56

Yeah. Well, and there is a lot of that, right? Where photographers, I think back to early on in my career and We'd go to bridal shows, and this is early on in my career, and I'll never forget my first bridal show. I booked 14 weddings within seven days of the show. That's crazy. That is crazy. I mean, it was. It told me I was priced too low, but that was incredible success, especially considering there were 15 plus other photographers at that show. And that's when I started realizing very early in my career that I wasn't just selling pictures. What makes photography good or bad? It's subjective. Exactly. Because what I like, you don't always like. There's no gold standard. This isn't like a plumbing, electrician certification program.

Alissa Cincotta 23:43

There are so many different styles

Sal Cincotta 23:44

that people gravitate. So either people like it or they don't. And I think when you step back and you start realizing this, that people want to do business with people they like. That is a very powerful thing to understand. Because now... If somebody contacts me through our website or something like that, okay, I know that I'm in their top three to five of pictures they like, right? Because they don't know anything about Susie, they don't know anything about Bob, and they really don't know anything about me, unless they've been referred, right? But just all things being equal. They have no idea. So now we're on equal footing. I know they like my work. I don't have to impress them with my work. What I now need to convince them of is that we are gonna have a good time together doing something because people want to do business with, with, uh, people they like. I don't, who, who, who wants to do business with somebody you don't like?

Alissa Cincotta 24:38

Somebody who can't stand their presence. Like you want that on your wedding day.

Sal Cincotta 24:42

You feel like they're disingenuous. You feel like they don't care about you. You feel like you're just a transaction for them. They feel like you're difficult to work with on and on and on. Would you want to do business with that person just because they're a hundred dollars cheaper? No way.

Alissa Cincotta 24:55

Nope.

Sal Cincotta 24:57

you'll spend more money. We do it. We did it with the guy who came out here for the tree. Yeah, exactly. Tell that story. It's got nothing to do with photography. The guy came out to give us a quote on tearing down a tree that was at risk of falling down on the house. Tell that story.

Alissa Cincotta 25:13

So we reached out to one company. They came out and quoted us. And, you know, due diligence, you know, get other quotes. So I got another quote and this guy calls me up and he's like, uh, full transparency. I hear you already, you already reached out to, for a quote from this company, uh, just letting you know. we use his gear anyway. So whatever he charged you, we're going to be the same. And it just like very rubbed you the wrong way. Yeah. It was just very rude. And then the guy, I had the third guy come out after that. Cause I'm like, well, I'm not going with either of those companies now. Right. So then the third guy comes out and he was just, he was so easy to talk to. He talked to me like I wasn't some stupid little girl that knows nothing about trees. And

Sal Cincotta 25:53

I mean, cause that's underestimating you how much I know about. No, I

Alissa Cincotta 25:56

am a stupid little girl who knows nothing about trees, but don't talk to me like

Sal Cincotta 26:00

Yeah, don't talk to me like I don't know shit about trees, because I don't know shit about trees.

Alissa Cincotta 26:04

No, I'm saying there's a way to explain.

Sal Cincotta 26:07

But he was more expensive is where I'm going, and we booked him because of that.

Alissa Cincotta 26:11

We booked him because he was transparent. He was honest about what to expect, where extra charges could come in. If we want to go this route, these are your options. And that's my point, man. He was just easy to be around, easy to talk to.

Sal Cincotta 26:23

And I think photographers... inherently believe that them getting booked or not booked is directly tied to price. Or

Alissa Cincotta 26:32

their

Sal Cincotta 26:32

work. Yeah, which I believe nothing could be further from the truth. especially when it comes to price. Price is not the leading indicator for you booking business. If that were the case, we'd have gone out of business a long time ago. In the St. Louis market, we are one of the highest priced wedding photographers there is. We always have been. Well, not always have been. In the very beginning, we weren't. But I figured this out. and our prices were raised to reflect that. We're not in New York or Chicago. We're in this small Midwest town and we have made a very good living at this because I'm not selling pictures. We understand we're selling us.

Alissa Cincotta 27:11

The experience. And that goes back to what we were talking about before with behind the scenes. you should show behind the scenes of everything you do, especially if you're a high priced item, because now you're letting people see what it's like to work with you. And they're getting, they're, they're investing in that. They're like, I want that experience.

Sal Cincotta 27:27

And nowadays it's so easy to do. So easy. Like back in the day when I started out, like there were no, I mean, fuck, we might've been using razor flip phones back then. I don't even know. Right. Those are

Alissa Cincotta 27:37

back in.

Sal Cincotta 27:37

Yeah. Those, those were horrible cameras anyway. No. Okay. So they, now, you know, you've got your phone. It's got 4K video on it. You could make a video of the experience easily with just music, some clips, and just an intro. And the intro doesn't even have to be perfectly filmed, right? Again, you rewind five, six, seven years ago. If you didn't have it perfectly lit, perfectly... Now... You know, I remember when people started filming vertical video, there was like this hashtag, say no to vertical video. Do you remember that?

Alissa Cincotta 28:12

Yeah, I remember it because you were using it heavily.

Sal Cincotta 28:15

Very anti.

Alissa Cincotta 28:15

You were

Sal Cincotta 28:16

anti-vertical video. But my point is now you can just pull your phone out. You just be like, what's up, everyone? Sal Cincotta, we're here today on a senior shoot. Check it out. And I'm done. And now it's just upbeat music and clips from me working with, you know, my teen. Right. And then final pictures. And now I get to your website, I see what it's like to work with you. That's a big selling point.

Alissa Cincotta 28:38

It is. That's the experience. People have this little voyeuristic peek into what it's like without having to... Especially for weddings, if you're going to invest $10,000 to work with somebody, you have no idea what it's like to work with them. This gives them a little peek while most people at that price point are providing a tailored custom experience.

Unknown 28:58

Yeah.

Sal Cincotta 28:59

They're judging you. Yes. Who you are. And

Alissa Cincotta 29:02

how you're going to interact with their people. Are you going to jive with their people on the wedding day? Right. Or are you going to be just awkward? However, sorry, side thought. There are clients, I believe, who want photographers who hide in the shadows. Yeah, of course. So there is a market for that.

Sal Cincotta 29:20

It's just not our market.

Alissa Cincotta 29:22

No, it's definitely not.

Sal Cincotta 29:24

Well... We did it. Maybe through our first episode. Yeah. I feel

Alissa Cincotta 29:28

like it was like five minutes. Yeah. Did we say enough?

Sal Cincotta 29:30

I think we said plenty. Okay. Yeah. So. All right, everybody. Well, hopefully you enjoyed our first episode here. And we're already producing more. So we go from episode to episode. We produce them in bulk. But there's definitely more to come. So hopefully you enjoyed this. Let us know in the comments if you're watching this on YouTube. And if you're listening online, we hope you love it. And we'll see you at the next... I don't even know. Can they subscribe like on Spotify or something like

Alissa Cincotta 29:56

that? We don't know. We're not podcast experience. Add us to your list.

Sal Cincotta 30:00

Your playlist. Your playlist.

Alissa Cincotta 30:01

Yeah.

Unknown 30:02

I don't know.

Sal Cincotta 30:03

We'll see you in the next one.